Thank you TIME Magazine, for uncovering this. The entire birther travesty is built on the absence of a photocopy of Obama’s original birth certificate. After all the caterwauling about it by the Teabigots, have you ever wondered why the White House doesn’t just wallpaper Fox News and Trump Tower with photocopies of the original document just to shut them the hell up? There’s a reason no such a photocopies exist— the law. Original birth certificates in the state of Hawaii canonly be inspected by a specific and circumscribed group of people. The state can issue those people a certified copy (as they did for the Obama campaign in 2008). Here’s the law:
§338-18 Disclosure of records.
(a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
(c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made.
(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.
(e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.
(f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct.
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:
(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes. [L 1949, c 327, §22; RL 1955, §57-21; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 30, §2; HRS §338-18; am L 1977, c 118, §1; am L 1991, c 190, §1; am L 1997, c 305, §5; am L 2001, c 246, §2]
In order to actually believe that Obama’s birth makes him ineligible for the Presidency, one must also believe that:
1) The Republican Party machine actually let him get away with it.
2) ALL 16 US intelligence agencies knew, but failed to act.
3) The McCain campaign allowed it to happen, instead of bringing it up during the race.
3) Every credible global news organization played a small part.
WOW! Outside of Opus Dei, this must be the BIGGEST and LONGEST LASTING conspiracy in the history of the world!
(Kinda unlikely, at least from my own POV.)
When I applied for my passport, I brought a copy of my LONG-FORM birth certificate with me – the one with the footprints & all. They sent me away, and told me to come back with a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH! Apparently, THAT is the legal document!
One final question – if all existing conditions were the same – Hawaiian birth, Kenyan dad, except for the color of the President’s skin, would this even be a topic of discussion?
how many forms of identification do you have to have, to get a job, a drivers license, welfare, ? Yes this is about the PRESIDENT NOT His color, considering he just broke the flipping Constitution how many times
“The truth! You can’t handle the truth!” The truth is, it is not about the birth certificate. It is about some sectors of our society that refuse to legitimize Barack Hussein Obama as their duly elected 44th President of these United States of America. They will do or say anything to get their ‘feelings’ across regardless of the truth. To them, the truth does not matter or even exist, but it does to many of us. To discuss this any further is a waste of everyone’s time, in my opinion. Let’s move on with something more productive.. like jobs.
You know this great country has gone to crap when people start calling each other stupid because of how they feel. My truth might not be your truth and vice versa. There is a way to get points across without resorting to childish acts of name calling, especially by people who are supposed “educated adults”. Arguing the topic of a birth certificate is MINOR in comparison to the things that we citizens SHOULD be concerned with.
I for one, agree that it is suspicious. If that makes me a “teabagger” or whatever other names have been thrown out, then so be it. But in all honesty, have respect for each other. Good grief, far better things are accomplished when personal opinions and viewpoints are respected. You don’t have to agree with them, but at least they are taking a stand for something that “they” believe in. “When you stand for nothing, you fall for anything”.
Actually, it makes you a racist. When was the last time you asked a white politician to provide their birth certificate? Oh, that’s right, NEVER!
Matt,
Didn’t Eugene Debs insist on seeing Teddy Roosevelt’s birth certificate because he thought he was born in Panama? I swear I read that in a Texas school book somewhere.
Peace,
Tex Shelters
Annoyed,
I too am tired and disappointed at all the liberals calling people “stupid” and worse. It is counterproductive. However, “Tea Bagger” is an apt name for people who have signed onto that cause.
I see nothing “Tea Bagger” in what you said.
Peace,
Tex Shelters
“You know this great country has gone to crap when people start calling each other stupid because of how they feel.”
You are not being called stupid because of how you feel. You are being called stupid because you have chosen to believe rumor and gossip over verified facts.
“My truth might not be your truth and vice versa. ”
Facts are facts, where you want them to be or not.
“I for one, agree that it is suspicious.”
What facts do you have for believing this?
His mother was American. That’s all it takes for him pr anyone else to be American.
Not correct Brady. You have to be born in the United States to become president, and Obama was.
Besides, it is a distraction by the issue challenged Republicans who don’t want you to notice their corporate run and written platform.
Peace,
Tex Shelters
So, the long-form CAN be copied, but you want us to believe that Obama himself cannot ask for such a copy for the purpose of putting the question — in your eyes, a canard –to rest? To quote your hero, “Do you think we’re stupid?”
Why should he???
Where’s YOUR birth certificate?
Mine’s from the great state of New York, Columbia Prez 2 1/2 months after Malcom X was shot right across the street.
Pertinax, read my response below. Consider yourself officially stupid.
YES! I do think all the birthers are stupid.
Why should Obama released anything other than what he has already released? Nothing else is legally needed.
School records are not public document’s and haven’t been since the 1970′s
Medical records are not public records.
Passport records are not public records.
Vital records in Hawaii are not public until 75 years after the event.
Those are all verifiable facts.
“A distinction without much of a difference perhaps”
What are you, crazy? A distinction that makes this article 100% meaningless. The whole issue hinges on this distinction.
Because if it could have been photocopied to put this matter at rest, then it should have been. So why hasn’t it been?
Ned – get in line behind Pertinax, and read my post below. I’m not going to write it out twice tonight.
Right. The document that you had was hospital document, and it’s not a legal document at all. It’s a commemorative document.
As an addition to your list, the birther’s apparently believe that the State of Hawaii is issuing fraudulent legal documents.
I could not have said any of that any better, your the bomb.
It’s always easier to lie than to tell the truth. Every time someone takes time to overcome/explain/examine/exhort/chastise/laugh at these ignoranuses, they are using energy that should be going toward the real battle for our wealth and property.
Stop spending time on birthers and learn to defend yourself. Study Lao Tzu and Von Clausewitz. Then drive these thieves out of our country and into the ocean they’ve polluted. Revoke their citizenship, confiscate their loot and territory. They’re not Americans, they’re traitors, criminals and the actual terrorists – the poor self-igniting Muslims are as much a victim of the Cheneys and Kochs as they are their own mullahs, and the rich Muslims are just the other side of the corporate coin.
Trump hasn’t a clue. He’s just another GOP straw-man dupe, latest in a long line of distractions. The real power lies behind the throne – the Billies, the billionaire old boys club. These are the villains who have declared war on America and then dare to accuse those who fight back of ‘class war.’
Back to school, Billies. Here’s your first Class War lesson – basic math. 300 million souls vs. 800 soulless. Have fun – while you can.
What people seem to forget is that it doesn’t matter if the President was born on the moon or Kenya or Indonesia or Hawaii or Chicago. His mother was born in the U.S. and lived more than 5 years of her adult life in the U.S. It doesn’t matter where she was when she gave birth – her children would STILL BE AMERICANS, without need for naturalization – just like they were born on US soil.
Lori,
But you have to be born in the United States to become president. And Obama was.
“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President”
Natural born means born in the United States. Why do you think California Republicans wanted to change the law so citizen Arnold Schwarzenegger could run for president.
Peace,
Tex Shelters
wait, so Obama wasn’t naturally born? did his mother have a Cesarean section to give birth to Obama? was he found under a pineapple leaf? does that mean my brother and I(both delivered by C-section) are not natural born citizens even though we were both born in California, well within the borders of The United States of America?
his mother from what I understand was an american citizen, ergo he was naturally, a citizen as soon as he was born. I could have been born in downtown Moscow but since both of my parents were born here in the U.S. I would be a natural born citizen and could run for president in another 5 years. at least that is the interpretation that I have always been taught. if you were born in the United States, or to citizens born in the United states, you were a natural born citizen.
Stop using logic and documented fact to upset the Tea Party bigots.
Peace,
Tex Shelters
What a slap in the face Trump if you can`t even find and read this law and your going to run this country,NOT!
A law that the author of this article has now admitted does not exist?
Okay, to Pertinax (and to Ed), take my hand, and I’ll walk you through this. I wrote this article about ten days ago. The day after I posted it on my Facebook page, a lawyer from Hawai’i informed me that the statute had recently been amended, so that the ONE sentence that I wrote; “but the original document itself cannot be photocopied by ANYONE” is not necessarily accurate… according to him, it’s now a “gray area.” Can Barack Obama walk in and demand a photocopy of his Hawai’ian birth documents tomorrow? I don’t know. But for the sake of clarity, and honesty, I decided to write that addendum, in the off-chance that this lawyer was right.
Another thing; I was unaware that this article was going to be posted last night. I have a folder full of articles that I’ve written, and offered them en masse to addictinginfo.org to use as they please. When I saw that this one had been uploaded, I IMMEDIATELY posted that caveat, just in case that fellow knew his poi, because I wanted there to be no doubt about where I stood. I haven’t checked it one way or the other myself, but I wanted the reader to know that I had been tipped off that since writing this, there had been a change in the law that brings in to question the accessibility of original state documents.
Please notice that I did so immediately upon learning that this article had been posted (in fact, it’s the very first comment after my article). If my aim was to mislead, then why do you suppose I would have even posted it at all? Unless you’re heavily versed in Hawai’ian law, I doubt anybody would have known one way or the other.
This is called “honesty,” sir. What you’re practicing is called challenging the integrity of someone for whom you disagree, because this article doesn’t meet your preconceived narrative.
As for whether or not I “think you’re stupid,” I believe I just answered that.
Weiner/Grayson 2012. :) REAL CHANGE.
Read it and weep birthers:
Amendment XIV, Section 1, Clause 1:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Thank you Monica! I new we were all Americans, else those in the service who had children born on foreign soil would not have American children. But did not know where to find that part in the Constitution. Thanks again!
Constitution of the United States, Article IV, section 1: Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.
This means that the birth certificate that the State of Hawaii issues has to be accepted, no state can say “No, that’s not good enough for us.”
teabaggers suck
Thanks for the reference, but still it doesn’t matter. His mother was an American citizen. That alone makes him a natural born American.
Thank you. I have been saying this almost 3 years now. I even looked it up with a non-believer, who now realizes that you can be born ANYWHERE on this planet to an American citizen and you are a natural-born citizen of the U.S.
Your premise about being a natural born citizen if you are born anywhere to parents, at least one of whom is a citizen, is true. However, to become President, you must have been born on U.S. soil. That includes all 50 states, Possessions and Territories and any other location designated as U.S. soil, such as military installations in foreign countries. Even if President Obama had been born in Hawaii BEFORE it became our 50th state, he would have still been eligible to become President, because Hawaii was a Territory of the United States.
Your assertion that you have to be born on US soil is incorrect.
Go read Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution and you will see no such statement.
During the election a photo cop was posted online. also common sense tells any start person a woman having her firstvbaby would not go to Kenya to have a baby in the 1960s when she would want the most modern hospital and skilled Doctors to deliver her first baby and her being any only child would want her Mom and Dad at her side to be present for the birth of her first child. Now one more reason was to insure her son was born in Her Country. Now think those common sense reasons out and tell that to these Birther idiots…….
Now now, don’t you know birthbaggers don’t care about facts?
Exactly – why let facts get in the way? Facts just confuse people, right?
So your article purports to explain that Obama is NOT ALLOWED to get a copy, then you add a comment explaining that your basic premise is wrong. He IS allowed to get a copy, as is anyone in the Whitehouse acting as his agent. So the entire point of this article is moot, yet is is posted anyway with the correct assumption that your readers do not want to find the truth, but only to bury this embarrassing situation.
Read it again, Ed. The article is not centered on Obama not having access to the state’s document, it’s about the law that protects personal privacy. The fact that he or his agents are allowed to make photocopies may or may not even be true — a Hawaiian attorney contacted me and advised me as such, so I chose to post that addendum just in case it’s true.
Your hair-on-fire post, as much as you’d like it to neutralize the entire article, does no such thing. It just exposes you as having comprehension issues.
“The fact that he or his agents are allowed to make photocopies may or may not even be true”
Well since you have no idea what is or is not true, then you have no standpoint on which to speak with authority on this matter one way or the other. So once again this article can tell us nothing about this matter other than nobody knows what is true.
“a Hawaiian attorney contacted me and advised me as such” – Obviously you didn’t consider that important enough to mention the first time. Be that as it may, the attorney obviously doesn’t know what is true either, or else you wouldn’t be left wondering what is true or what isn’t.
“The article is not centered on Obama not having access to the state’s document, it’s about the law that protects personal privacy.” You mean like the laws that protect a Presidential candidate from having to publicly release his federal tax returns? That kind of privacy law?
Bruce, c’mon, this whole thing stinks, makes no sense whatsoever, and you know it.
Ned, you Goober… You’re responding to the wrong post! Read my 3:54 pm comment, then you’ll understand. I’m not here to “convince” you of anything, nor do I care if you agree with the article. But at least try to comprehend why I issued a caveat.
GOOBER!…..why I oughta….why I never in all m…..sir, I resemble that remark!
Much better. ;)
IT’S A MOOT POINT ANYWAY – EVERYONE I KNOW WHO VOTED FOR HIM WILL NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE.
HE SWORE UP AND DOWN THAT HE WOULD END THE WARS, STOP THE TORTURE AND CLOSE GITMO, AND END THE POLICE STATE MEASURES. I DON’T CARE IF HE WAS BORN NEXT TO THE LINCOLN MONUMENT,WRAPPED IN AN AMERICAN FLAG; 3 STRIKES AND YOU’RE OUT. I’D RATHER VOTE FOR AN HONEST WARMONGER THAN A LIAR.
You know what, sometimes things are easier said than done. There has been a huge drawback of troops in iraq, as he said there would be. He made attempts at putting the detainees at gitmo on trail in civilian courts, that was met with republican outrage and more fear mongering. he does have a timetable in place for withdraw from Afghanistan. You don’t just walk away from what you have started so easily, and you don’t get to make up headlines to suit your own ideas like republicans do.
rd, you will get your chance to vote for Trump, Gingrich, Bachman, or any other of the group of lame-o’s who will run. Has any politician been able to do every thing he wished to do?
so i hope that you and the four others are very happy with the alternative
Do you realize that the President can’t just DO EVERYTHING that he wants? Our President isn’t the end-all be-all of all laws and policies, he has to go through a lot of BS to do anything, and currently that means that the Republicans are busy keeping anything from happening, and then whining that nothing’s getting done. HurpDerp politics, HOW DOES IT WORK!?
Yes because John McCain and Failin Palin would have done SO much more that you’d agree with right? Yes. He broke his promises. but even knowing that i’d still vote for him because there’s no way i’d have voted for the other person and looking at the field this time around he’s STILL head and shoulders above the rest.
a DEAD dog, (OR WOLF, which is what palin would want) could lead the country with more intelligence and passion, ingenuity, and integrity than palin or mccain. You might notice I have not capitalized their names…. I only do that when they deserve RESPECT.
Don’t be so sure…there is a lot to be said for keeping the Devil that you know than choosing one from the never ending parade of sheer ridiculousness that the other party is suggesting. All I heard during the last election was how impossible it was that he could get elected…I would not be at all surprised if it happens again. We shall see.
Boo Hoo. Obama didn’t snap his fingers & magically accomplish EVERYTHING he said…even with multiple crisis, Health Care battle & THE PARTY OF NO fighting him on every bill. Hmm…so you’re gonna GIVE UP? Thank God we don’t have a President like that. If you don’t vote, your worst nightmare will happen. Republicans will abolish everything Obama has accomplished.
Obama cannot be expected to wave a magic wand and fix everything in 2 year…..it took Dubya 8 years …. count them eight to fuck up the country & you want everything fixed now! You are not even giving him the same 8 yrs Dubya had to fuck it up! If you want instant gratification, try jerking off….otherwise, let the man repair the damage……. after 8 years, then you’ll have room to complain.
I hear your frustration, rd, but riddle me this -
If what you’ve listed in your post are things that YOU wanted done (and I’m pretty sure that they are also things that Obama WANTED to do, but couldn’t beat the rethuglican obstructionists), name ONE other candidate who …
1) would support that agenda, AND
2) has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning a presidential election.
I think you meant to say “drawdown” (a reduction in numbers” and not “drawback” (a negative quality that hinders the benefits of something). However, yes – Obama has had such stiff opposition on every issue of substance that it is a wonder he’s accomplished anything. I don’t agree with everything he’s done, but I gotta give him credit in terms of maneuvering and follow-through. His opposition has opposed every single measure, even when their supposed platform agrees with him, determined to paint him as a do-nothing president, and he has succeeded in the majority of those efforts. As for the war timelines, we have an obligation to do those things in an orderly fashion and mind the aftermath, not just leave and let chaos ensue. It takes time. With Gitmo, the pres has done all he could and his order was effectively circumvented by Congress defunding it. One guy, people, even POTUS, cannot act with impunity.
The Tea Baggers knew this, of course. They wanted him to grab a photocopy so they can smack him with ignoring the law for doing so.
Law?!? Since when do birthers, or most republicans for that matter, care about the law?
when it’s convenient for them to do so.
When it BENEFITS them…
When its a required document to apply for the right for presidency as it states in the constitution.
Article Two of the United States Constitution
Oops or does that law not need to be followed?
Sorry to be all tea-party and fact seeking.
AHA! So you admit you lied! You admit it’s all fake! I KNEW it! It’s a liberal cover up!
Whoa! Sorry, I channeled a Tea Partier for a second…
I hope you don’t own a gun…. you need psychiatric help, dude. Move on.
and you need to find a sense of humor.
Ha-ha. Very Funny! Yeah…ya gotta be careful…it happens! ;-)
Thank you Time Magazine. Finally everybody can read and know what most people already knew. You just don’t go get a copy of someone’s birth certificate. There’s the law, read it and understand it.