By Author Unknown (if you know who wrote it, PLEASE let me know)
Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit!
We can get that for less than minimum wage.
That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).
Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.
However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.
LET’S SEE….
That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).
What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.
Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!
The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!
Make a teacher smile; repost this to show appreciation for all educators.
Obviously a CEO who drives his/her company into the ground deserves 165k a year in salary, if not better.
Part of the problem for education expenses, is that most of the money goes to salaries for folks who aren’t actually teaching: Principals, Administrators, etc.
Try looking at their salaries for a change.
We pay a lot of lip service to the importance of education in this country, but the truth is most educators are extremely underpaid for all that they do. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for teachers at all levels. As a professor (with a PhD) in a medium-sized liberal arts college, I began teaching with a 3/4 load, making less than $50,000 per year. I don’t ‘get summers off’; like other teachers, I use the summer to plan courses, write articles, and often teach 1-3 courses for extra money. It’s a very rewarding but stressful career due to the lack of fair compensation. The ignorant belief that teachers and professors have it easy–or make anywhere close to what they deserve–makes me very angry.
Thanks for your dedication to learning.
Nice try. However, babysitters are not paid per child.
Considering that most if not all of those children are NOT sharing parents, it most certainly is a payment per child! I sure the heck am not paying for YOUR child’s babysitter, although I gladly pay the taxes that pay for YOUR child’s teachers.
It absolutely would be per child. Day cares charge by the child. We’re not talking about you hiring your neighbor’s teenager to babysit your three kids so you can go to the movies.
You absolutely would be paying per/kid if you were hiring a full time babysitter/nanny/day care.
I was referred to this post through a friend’s facebook update, and this got me provoked to leaving a comment (which in general I don’t).
In less than a year, I will be entering the education field (well, not in N.A.). Knowing quite a bit about the system in general, and being in school for more than 4 years post-secondary, I would like to share with everyone the difference between a teacher and a lecturer. In that, I am looking to become to former.
I often associate professors who care as teachers. My definition of this word is someone who wants the best for the student, be it academically or administratively in school. My university has all sorts of FUNKY RULES that basically destroy students. For example, there are all sorts of requirements aside from the program you’re in that you have to complete in order to fulfill the degree requirements. Those are two completely different matters. Without boring anyone with the details, I just want to say that I was a victim of the very intricate system. I was hopeless and depressed at many points – to a point I had to stop school or else I’d have committed suicide. Until now, I’ve encountered many profs who simply want the students to finish the ‘education’ and move on in life. Call me ignorant, but until I was given a chance to rate my professor for a tenure, I did not know what that was. She was truly the best teacher I have ever met.
Given the above story of mine, I would like to say that good teachers do deserve a good pay. They dedicate their hearts and patience to the students, despite how stupid they can be. I am telling you all, MOST PEOPLE don’t have patience. I consider this a talent – just like how talented singers get to make so much even thought they just sing. There are a LOT of mechanisms behind everything and why they exist. I have gone through hell to get the proper background to become a teacher. Well, I have to say I genuinely want to educate whatever I have to the future children, and I believe I should be paid at least decent for what I put in (Those who study math or computers don’t count – simply because the students either get it or they don’t by a certain level.)
In terms of reputable research, there are also ones that prove how important teachers are to students (kids, that is, I’m not entirely sure about university). As much as virtual education saves money and all that, I cannot imagine which parent would want his/her kid to face the stupid computer all day learning something that he/she won’t need in life (or come across that often; imagine all the calculus we did). At this rate, kids will not know what interpersonal skills are. Even though I live in the 21st century, I hate the computer. It’d be best if I don’t need to use it for school at all.
True/good teachers also offer hope and love, which a dead machine cannot. The professors I mentioned gave me hope and after so many years of struggling, I am finally graduating this year. This is something that human beings need. Aren’t we always trying to promote love not hatred?
I can’t stress enough about why we need teachers. And for one fact, they don’t get paid like what the ‘reports’ say. The maximum a teacher can get per month here, after teaching for like 40 years, is 7k. I can tell you an accountant or a computer geek can get more than that, and they’re NOT doing the world any deeds.
Dearest Mike,
In response to your ridiculous response, here are a few things for you to consider:
1. I am a brand, spankin’ new teacher. I just graduated from a private university last summer with a Master’s Degree.
2. I work for the New York City Department of Education, and my salary is no secret. Someone on my rung of the ladder makes about 54,600 dollars per year. I’m not sure I can think of any other career that (more and more) requires a Master’s Degree in which your starting salary is this low.
3. I owe about 67,000 dollars back to the government in student loans (just started repaying them in December). As I do not make the salary of many others with master’s degrees, I am having to pay the minimum balance on these loans (about 525 dollars per month) in order to pay rent and keep afloat in general. This means that I will be paying back student loans until the exact day that I turn 55. Lucky me! I’ll be paying for this career until I retire!
4. I made the decision a long time ago to work in a “high needs” neighborhood. I live on Long Island, and there are many of these kinds of schools here, but because teaching jobs are so scarce (as teachers are unimportant, overpaid society ruiners and, really, who needs us anyway?)my commute is about 90 minutes each way. I drive a decently fuel-efficient car. I spend between 60-75 dollars per week on gas. As you love numbers so much, this amounts up to about 1,800 in gas thus far, or 90,000 dollars over my 30 year career).
5. As far as all of the “time off” we get, I’m pretty sick of hearing this argument. Let me ask you, Mike, do you get to use the restroom whenever you’d like at your job? I don’t! That must be a pretty nice privilege. Are you a manager or someone who’s primarily responsible (or held to that standard by society) for the well being and future of anyone you work with? Do you go to sleep at night and worry about the future of your colleagues? Are you EVER at work for 15 hours at a time? I am!!!! Most days I get to work at about 6:30 AM (which, if you’re counting, means I leave at 5 AM) and I don’t leave until 5:30 or 6:30 PM. However, if there is a dance, a field trip, a meeting, a concerned parent, or anything else that may come up, I may end up being at school until 10:30 easily. When was the last time you had a sixteen hour work day?
I mean, my God, I realize that probably no one will read this, but I am so sick of being crapped on by people who have no idea what I do and how I’m good for nothing and overpaid and underworked. Guess what, Mike. Do you know what I do on my “paid vacation”? I WORK. Here’s why: There is NEVER enough time, even in my SIXTEEN HOUR WORK DAY, to do everything that I need to do. I know, this might be crazy, but teachers don’t just walk in front of a group of teenagers and say, “welp, here’s something. do this.” No. Next time you make an assumption about how hard I work, or my “vacation” time, think about this:
What if everything you did at your job needed to be explained in three different ways? You need to be able to show your boss, your colleague, and a total stranger the same concept and make sure that each of them understand it. Okay, now remember, they are going to be tested on this concept and it’s going to determine whether or not you are doing a good job. However, if they all do TOO well, you’re probably cheating. If they’re not doing well enough, well, that’s also your fault because you didn’t correctly show them how to do it. This is the job and the pressure a teacher encounters every day.
I have wanted to be a teacher since I was 4. I can’t remember ever wanting to do anything else. Excuse my french, but I fucking love this job. Do not get that twisted. There isn’t anything in this world I value more than seeing a reluctant learner analyze themselves and question their world through literature. This is my passion. But before you scrutinize my salary and my “vacation time” ask yourself if YOU are doing everything a teacher does every day.
I tried teaching. It wasn’t for me. I know what you do & what it takes to do it. You educate the doctors, lawyers & “indian chiefs” of this country/world. You cannot be paid enough for all you do! I admire all teachers that dedicate their lives to education and the formation of all future citizens.
In my book, most (not all) teachers are saints. Thanks for all you do.
I am a teacher. I left a career in biotech because I chose to. In biotech I made about $85K. My teacher salary is now $54K. Out of that, I pay about $400/mo for health insurance (twice as much as I paid in biotech), 11% to an unmatched and solely teacher funded retirement system (where I left a 401K with a 5% company match), I pay almost $1000 in union dues to protect my salary, my retirement, and most importantly my working conditions (aka: holding to maximum class sizes and making sure I have one period a day off to call parents, set up activities, grade papers, see guidance counselors, etc). I spend anywhere from $800 to $1000 a year on school supplies. I am also required to spend my own money on continuing education classes for credits necessary to keep my educators license. In addition, in my state I am also required to hold a Masters Degree (most programs cost anywhere from $15K to $30K, of which I will get about $800/yr from my school district to help). As for my hours, yes I grade papers probably about 4 nights a week, in addition I plan lessons, contact parents, and I spend an enormous amount of time trying to figure out how to reach this kid or that kid, etc. All that time off???? I spend about half of my vacations in school. I run copies of worksheets, organize and reorganize, look for new and interesting lessons to try, I revamp old lessons and prepare for the upcoming school weeks. And when I’m not doing that, I’m working with a whole host of troubled kids who simply need mentors. All in all, I’d say between my school hours, continuing ed hours, and working at home hours, my 180 days at school aren’t much different than the holidays, sick days and 3 or 4 weeks vacation I had in my former life. Don’t tell me I’m paid what I’m worth. I go above and beyond and what most people wouldn’t know is that most teachers do. In addition, due to budget cuts, most teachers now volunteer their time to chaperone school activities- clubs, dances, sporting events, science fairs, etc. I know teachers who’ve taken in homeless kids, teachers helping kids pay for college, teachers tutoring at night and weekends for free for the students who need it. Have I done those things? Yes, I have. I’ve never worked so hard so for little pay and so little benefits. I’m new to the profession, a mid-life career changer, and can say with a certain amount of objectivity that teachers are underpaid for all that they do and for all that they are required to do. You trust us with your children. We should be required to uphold high standards, high qualifications, and we should be required to be heavily involved with each student, but no one wants to pay for it. I love teaching. There’s nothing I’d rather do and certainly nothing I find more worthwhile or rewarding. I’m not sure about teachers doing nothing on “professional development” days….we work our butts off on those days. It’s a day to ourselves, as a collective group, to tackle issues or hammer out standards and objectives, or put forth new initiatives for our students. I “work” from September to June and to be honest, by June, when I’ve had 10 months of teaching about 100 kids x 180 days, yes I need a vacation and I’ll say I’ve EARNED it! Not that I really get it…I take about 2 weeks for myself to decompress…then I’m off to my Master’s program or back in my classroom organizing, preparing for the coming year, reflecting on the last one, and thinking about how to do my job better….oh yeah, and how to deal with people who don’t have a clue. As for salaries…teachers are paid based on years of experience and and education. So yes, there are well paid teachers out there and they should be! They have about 20 years experience and probably a PhD, multiple degrees, or hold several certificates. In other words, they EARNED it!
You get a gold star from me… I only wish it could be real gold!
From one who tried & failed miserably!
As a current science teacher I would like to say that I walked into this profession knowing that I could get paid more elsewhere. I did not bargain for, however, all the budget costs that essentially have put more duties on my plate with no raise for the last 3 years. Most other working professionals would also feel angry if their boss gave them more responsibilities (larger class sizes, more paperwork) and no raise. I love my job, but it is people like those negative nancys [above] that have been commenting on how teachers are overpaid that challenge my mindset. I am lucky enough to teach in a great school district where we have a lot of parental support, but there are still ignorant parents that we have to deal with (some of which may have made those rediculous comments above) that make it difficult for me to have a positive outlook on my career. Treat us like the educated professionals that we are. I have never heard so much controversy over any other professional career. We work in public service. We are not looking to get rich. We just do not like when people who have NO IDEA what they are talking about act like we get paid too much for what we do. If that was the case- why do we lose 50% of new teachers within the first five years? If our job was so easy and we are overpaid- why would anyone leave? All we ask for is a little support. We have chosen this career. Many of us could make more money elsewhere, but we chose less pay to educate your children. This is because we love our job. We deserve our summer break. The hours I work are not just physically but also emotionally draining as I invest my life in each and every student who walks through my door. That is something many people do not consider. People who are saying we get paid too much obviously have no idea what they are talking about. That is exactly the point of the article above. All I ask is for budget cuts from education to stop. I just want no more teachers laud off and it would also be nice to have my (minuscule) yearly salary increase I signed up for.
Thanks for all you do. Your response was right on.
Well, i enjoyed the article, but not the comments that follow it. Teachers do have a hard job. They make decent money for their work. As they should. My wife (with help from me) is paying for one hell of an education at a university that charges too much to begin with. We will be paying down a student loan for quite some time. I can only hope that she will bring down 50 g’s when all is said and done!
The negative comments stem from union hate. Union busting rhetoric forced upon us from every media angle. I make 65k a year as an electrician. I work my tail off just like teachers. Do i make too much? 5yrs of trade school, four yrs as an apprentice, 8000hrs on the job before i can take an exam for licensing. Been doing this for 23yrs now. Frankly, underpaid!
Yet I learned from a teacher. Who, quite frankly, is underpaid as well.
Seems to me that wages are largely flat across the board for people that make less than 50,000.00 a year. Particularly, public employees. The shift in recent years seems to be toward paying about 10.00 an hour for most jobs. I suspect that those who are considered to be trend setters in their specific industries (public or private) are driving toward this trend. First of all because it allows for more money for those at the top or gives the appearance of money saved for public budgets. Second, it lessens the risk to an employer being sued for illegal work practices (also weakening or eliminating unions) . Third it limits or eliminates an employee to have access to services such as a lawyer, specialist doctors and/or procedures that insurance will not cover. Lastly, limit political power or representation (lowering or eliminating donations) . Afterall, most of us don’t have a politician in our back pockets. Do you agree?
So based on my math, they are way overpaid in comparison to the article’s figure…
30 years @ 55k salary average = 1.65M
30 years of payroll tax (Medicare, SS, FICA, Etc) @ 8k/yr = 240k
30 years pension @ 65% = 1.0725M
60 yrs of healthcare @ 10k/yr (very conservative) = 600k
TOTAL = ~119k/yr (127k/yr including sick day cashout @ retirement)
This doesn’t even account for raises and retirement sick day cashout. If a teacher retires making 85k, we’re talking an average of 165k/yr compensation.
165k/yr for working 10 months w/ 2 weeks paid vacation isnt bad…
I’m interested on who you think does deserve to make $165K a year? If you think a highly effective teacher with a masters or doctorate should make over a $100 a year? It could be worse teachers COULD make less than they do now, with crappy benefits. Then who would do that job? You? What compensation do you think is adequate for the task at hand? You clearly spent a lot of time figuring that out, thank a teacher for giving you those skills.
Wow, you are definitely not a teacher. First of all many of us don’t make 55,000. I personally only make 30,000 a year but I really only bring home 20,000 after I pay taxes/for my insurance/etc. We used to have good insurance but now we don’t. Oh yeah, lets not forget that we are “professionals” we have to maintain our license and continue to take edcuational classes in order to remain certified so its not like we are a bunch of people sitting around collecting a paycheck. If you haven’t ever worked in a school you don’t deserve to comment. You probably get time to yourself each day and if you don’t feel well one day and you aren’t sick enough to stay home you can probably curl up in your cubicle and look at the wall. You don’t have parents, student, and other staff to talk to the whole day. I am a special education teacher too so I am in charge of federal paperwork to complete that is a minimum of 20 pages for one student. Do you ever write 20 pages of work that is federally mandated and checked by the state to make sure it’s done correctly? do you have to email parents daily? do you have to buy bookbags/notebooks/all school supplies and clothes for kids you didn’t give birth to? No, I didn’t think so. I do and I do it because I love them and I know I am making a difference. YOU WOULDN’T BE WHERE YOU ARE TODAY WITHOUT TEACHERS SO YOU REALLY OWE THEM. Also, if you think we get a vacation in the summer you are kidding yourself. Most teachers have a full-time summer job doing something because they can’t afford to live on their “enormous” salary! also, raises? are you kidding me? we are the first to get a cut. In north carolina they gave us 5 extra working days without a pay increase (no one has gotten a raise in 5 years they froze our salaries) during that time they changed our benefits so we have to pay more for our insurance. They also did furlough days for us…if you don’t know what that is look it up. If you had any idea how hard it is to be an educator you would have not made such an idiotic reply. You couldn’t handle the job and if you don’t believe me go do it for just 6 months. I bet you would quit. Teachers are so much to this country but no one seems to truly value them, not even the parents of the kids you are raising because they aren’t raising them at home.
Amen! Go get ‘em! It’s amazing that teachers do as much as they do with the limited resources they have!
So your math doesn’t work either.
Of course, most of it depends on the state.
Payroll tax- doesn’t even come close to 8k for me.
Healthcare costs- just got my W2 today and now they are including that information– it’s less than 5k a year
Sick day cashout- you can’t cashout your sick days, at least in my state.
I have not received a single raise in 5 years. In my state, if I teach for 30 years WITH a masters degree AND National board certification I will make at most 60k.
Besides all of your poorly found “facts.” The point is, that teachers just want to be treated the same way as professionals in other professions. Just because my state can’t balance a budget doesn’t mean that my pay should be docked (and not paid back, and yes, this really did happen). If you’re going to count my health benefits as income (which I’ve found with talking with friends outside the teaching profession- it’s not uncommon for benefits to be paid by the company for salaried employees) then just let me have that money and I’ll get health coverage for less money and it will be better. And while we’re at it, you have to count your companies contributions to your retirement account as well as part of your income. Guess that’s pretty good for someone who sits at a desk all day and pushes paper. I don’t expect to get paid a ton, I’d just like it to be comparable- I’d love to go to being an hourly employee— I’d make 12k more a year than I do now. Don’t believe all the rhetoric everyone is spitting at you- that goes for both sides. Look into what is really going on.
I don’t usually respond to people on these posts, but I find it necessary to correct your ignorant math.
First of all, did you know that teachers have to give 9.5% of their total earnings (including extra duty pay) to the Teacher retirement system? That’s the money that goes to pay the pensions at the end of a teaching career.
So, if you say a yearly average of 55k x 30 years = 1.65 mil, it’s really 49,775 x 30 = 1,493,250 over a 30 year career. That is assuming that a teacher retires at 55, which is now not even enough to collect a full pension. At this point in time, I believe a teacher needs to work at least 35 years before even being elligble for a full pension.
I’m not sure where you get the 60 years of health care either? Teachers pay for health insurance just like everyone else. It’s not given for free as a “perk.” Some districts may help with healthcare costs, but so do private companies.
Now, your comment about retirement sick day “cashout.” You clearly aren’t aware how a teacher’s contract works. Teachers are given so many sick days per year. The days are worked into a teaching year assuming that they will all be taken, and therefore a teacher is no paid for them. So out of a 180 day school year, if given 10 sick days, a teacher is only paid for 170 days. Therefore, at the end of the year, if there are any sick days remaining, they roll over into the next year, because they are days that have been worked but the teacher has not been compensated for them at all. So this “cashout” as you call it, is merely being compensated for days that have been worked, that have not be paid out. How many people do you know would sit around and wait until they were 60 to get paid for days they worked when they were 25?
As for working 10 months with 2 weeks paid vacation? Teachers do not get paid time off. What they do get their pay checks spread out over the course of the year.
In the state of Illinois in 2010, the average teacher pension was $41k. I don’t know what you make, and it’s none of my business what it is. All I know is that without good teachers in the schools, our children will not get a good education. Without that we are screwed. Cut teacher’s salaries more than they already are and we will lose strong people, willing to put up with the politics, the self-righteous parents and students, the pressure of NCLB and 100% of students meeting state standards by 2014. It takes a special person to want to take on all of that and ignorant people like you are not helping the situation.
You don’t see anyone coming in to your job and telling you that you make too much money and that you don’t deserve the benefits you have. In what other profession are employees attacked as much as education? None. In what other profession are employees willing to let the government set ridiculous expectations and threaten to dock your pay if they aren’t met? In what other profession are employees asked to forget about all external factors beyond their control and make magic happen? None. But teachers do it every day. They deal with students with no accountability for themselves, parents who think their child can do no wrong and legislators who don’t know anything about kids and how they learn making decisions for them every day. Unbeatable odds are being beaten everyday and all teachers get is negativity from people like you, who don’t understand what goes on in schools every day.
Take the same calculations to your job and see what your end number supposedly is. Then take a look at the difference you have made or will have made and see if it adds up to the difference made to every child by every teacher they have had. And then, thank a teacher, because they are the ones who showed you how to do the math in the first place.
Wait, are you adding the payroll tax onto the salary?? For REAL??
you do realize that the 55k average is GROSS salary, and that payroll tax comes OUT of that 55k, don’t you??
and you do realize that teachers pay INTO their retirements and healthcare out of that same 55k, right??
apparently not. evidently, the average teacher nets 55k after all deductions are taken. that’s amazing. please tell me where in can find this manna-from-heaven job, b/c i GROSS <45k after 11 years of experience in teaching.
Hmm. Let’s look at those numbers again. For the sake of simplicity, we’ll accept the $55k salary (even though that’s actually the high end of the salary range in the US, with the average being closer to $38k). We’ll also accept a 30 year career.
Base: $55k/year for 30 years = $1,650,000
Monthly Breakdown (all numbers rounded)
Gross Pay: $4,583.00
Payroll taxes (Federal): – $920.00
Health Insurance (min): – $150.00
Retirement: – $435.00
Earned paid sick time: None
Earned paid vacation time: None
Earned comp time: None
Net Pay: $3,078.00
Annual net: $36,936.00 30 year net: $1,108,080.
Additionally, the teachers I’m aware of need to pay for their continued certification (minimum $500, sometimes as much as $5,000 a year) and classroom supplies ($800-$1,000 a year). The taxes may be as much as doubled in some states due to state income tax, many, if not all, teachers have union dues ($750-$1,000 a year), and the majority of teachers are still paying off school loans ($6,000 – $9,000 a year). At the low end, that drops off another $7,300, at the highest end, it’s as much as $17,000.
So there’s your numbers – our highest paid teachers are making ends meet on net $20,000 to $30,000 a year. The average teacher is making ends meet on about $10,000 a year – and they’re asking for teaching deferment on loans, missing some of the higher costing certifications that would allow them to make just a tiny bit more, and hoping that this year, the state will make the budget work so that they can get a raise.
In comparison, a software engineer starts at $55k/year and over a 30 year career, if they’re any good, can wind up at $155k/year, with stock options, 90% funded health care, paid sick and vacation time, and matched retirement. Just tossing that in there as a contrast.
Ok Mike -
I am a 6th grade math teacher and we just had a lesson on taxes budgeting and how to spend money so let me help you out a bit. Payroll tax is taken out of a check not added back in – we don’t get that back at the end of our careers.
We as teachers in most states pay unmatched into our pension fund and are eligible to get it back after 35 years of service or at 62. Approximately 10% of our salaries.
We pay for our healthcare just like everyone else. I pay almost 800 dollars a month for a family of four.
Sick days are not cashed out at the end of our careers and we do not get paid for them.
None of our vacation is paid time.
I am a teacher with my National Board Certification, and a Masters Degree and I cap out in my district at 70,000 after 30 years.
Your math is a little off.
I believe teachers are hard workers and deserve a lot of credit. I could NOT do that job. But… (always a big but) I’m tired of the complaining about salary and benefits. I make about as much as a teacher with a B.S. in my school district. I, too, am a professional with a degree and I work more than 40 hours a week, sometimes up to 50, as do many other educated professionals in this country. However, I don’t get all that time off every year and I pay nearly $300 per month for my health insurance.
Example: I was talking to a teacher friend of mine about these random days off that the kids get like “records day” and “professional day”. I asked what those are and she said they’re just “non-contract” days and the teachers “don’t get paid for them”. So I said, “oh, so your paycheck is smaller for the months that have those special days off?” She said no, because her pay is spread evenly throughout the year. Here’s the kicker: My annual salary is 44k per year “spread throughout the year” and paid weekly, hers is 44.5k and prorated and paid monthly. I get 2 weeks vacation, 3 sick days, and 6 paid holidays. She gets 8 weeks off in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week spring break, 8 holidays, 5 sick days per school year and all those “records days” and “professional days”.
If the teachers want to convince me they’re underpaid because they grade papers at home, they’re going to have to come up with something better.
I don’t think the issue is wanting a higher salary for most teachers. They just want to maintain the right to bargain and to keep the salaries and benefits they have. I don’t think there’s a more important job anywhere than the one they do. Police don’t prevent crime, they solve them. Good teachers do way more to prevent it. So, support teachers if you don’t want to get mugged when you’re old by the bratty 10 year old of today.
It’s not that I’m complaining about my papers at home or my hour I work beforehand or the 2 to 3 I work after my “day” is over. Or the papers I take home to grade. The grades I put into my gradebook and then into the computer. I complain that I educate (and educate WELL! Love my job!) and without teachers like me… we wouldn’t our doctors, lawyers, and our president. It’s kind of upsetting that our educators are so downhearted anymore (or at least in my region) and feel like no one listens. There are teachers who are tired and worn out and ones who never should have step foot into a classroom; however, for those of us who devote our lives, hearts, and souls to those children that we help to educate (ahem, raise)… then I feel like WE do deserve more than what we get. Or, at least a healthy raise or some kind of bonus system (without having to teach in a big city). I do my best to teach and love 21 kids all day, every day. I do my best to get them fed, taught, and loved every day. Countless hours of planning and my own money. So, that salary that I DO actually see on my paycheck… well, most of it is spent on them.
Teachers are underpaid because of all of the abuse we endure on a daily basis — from students, parents, co-workers, and administrators. If I worked a different job with the same hours and wage but minus the chaos that is public school — and I have — I would not go home every evening with the ulcers and migraines and depression that I have now.
When I was teaching (as a new teacher, to be fair) I was working 70 hours/week. If you want to include my 30 minute drive to the school in that, then go ahead and add on an extra 5 hours. I averaged 4-6 hours of sleep a night, and “grading papers at home” is quite an understatement of what we do while we’re not actively teaching. In fact grading papers is the easiest part of our “homework”. It’s the planning that takes the most time, and can be, especially if your method of teaching involves no textbook, mentally exhausting.
Also, in my district, the salary for a new teacher is $34k, and doesn’t start going up until after 4 years of teaching. I wouldn’t hit 44k until my twelfth year.
Lastly, I don’t know where your teacher friend works, but here, with the exception of National Holidays, all random days off for students are teacher workdays, which are mandatory. As far as the other time off, assuming you’re a teacher who cares about/is passionate about teaching (like I once was), our vacations are nowhere near as long as the students’. Sure we might get to sleep in a little bit later during the summer, but once mid-July hits, we’re right back on it.
Eventually I started getting lazy, so that I could squeeze in a few extra hours of sleep, or make an attempt at a social life, and my class was beginning to get repetitive. My students were getting bored, and I didn’t like the teacher I had become. It really wasn’t worth it to try as hard as I was previously trying.
I then gave up teaching, to go back to waitressing, (while I figure out something else to do) because I pull in $1,000/2 weeks, minimum, and work less than half the hours.
You are able to do your job because of the teachers you had. We don’t do it for the money. Those that think we have too much free time or breaks are wrong. Try our job for a week or even a day.
Dear Shelly,
Two days ago, I spent about 5 hours grading 55 tests. At home! While you watched TV or relaxed. My neck hurts from sitting in the same position, looking down while marking. It’s not the same as reading a book.
Today I spent my lunch helping a few kids with the material because they did not understand the material. I also spent 1.5hrs coaching after school.
Today, I also have a new batch of papers to grade. Again! Which will be another 3-5hrs.
Dont forget that while you went home after work, I coached for 1.5hrs, which I did not get paid for even a penny. And now I have to grade for another couple hours.
It makes me sick when people think that the “2 month vacation” is a gift from God, when you are completely drained by the end of a school year.
Oh wait, so who teaches those kids in the summer who decided they did not want to do their work during the regular school year? Oh, that’s right, teachers. And who teaches those kids who want to speed up their education process by taking night school? Oh that’s right, it’s those teachers who have so much extra time on their hands and they’re so relaxed all the time due to their “2 month vacation”.
Wait, I forgot that I have to plan exciting lessons for my students, call parents, and help with school events, such as prom, semi-, extended field-trips, etc. On my own time. That’s right!
Well, who’s going to spend time with MY kids then?
Who’s going to cook, do laundry, or buy food?
Oh that’s right, I don’t have enough time to do that because I chose to help out some students & coaching instead of being selfish and grading papers so I could go home and watch some TV.
Wait, there’s more! Teacher’s get evaluated, which takes time to organize. Teacher’s have to meet with parents, and not just twice per year.
There are many things teachers do but don’t advertise to the whole world on a daily basis.
And if you want a great pension like teachers get, then save up 10-20% of your own NET pay, and see how much is left over for you to feed the family. Teacher’s can’t opt out of the teacher pension. If you have a hard month, you can stop saving. Teachers can’t. This is why they get a “great pension”.
Teachers work with students carrying all sorts of diseases, like chicken pox, and thus they should have more sick days. If one students gets sick & brings it in, it’ll spread. Then you give it to your kids and have to take care of them. The amount of people getting sick around you in a school is way higher than at an office.
Please respect your teacher friend, & others, and what they do for your kids/grandkids and the rest.
If you’re so upset about the “extra 2 months of vacation” go to teacher’s college and become a teacher yourself.
Normally, I never comment on articles. But Shelly M., your comment really struck a nerve with me. Let me ask you this, are you able to go to the bathroom during the day without weighing the consequences of doing so? Do you have time to eat during the day while at work? Do you have to use your own money to pay for office supplies? (Last year I spent nearly $2,000 of my own money!) Is your mind able to wander at any point during the day? When you leave work, are you constantly thinking/reflecting on how you could have done better, what you need to do, what parents you must call back? Is your mind space completely saturated with your job?
Because of scheduling, I have my students from 7:15 until 11:15 without a break. If for some reason I have to use this restroom, I must interrupt another teacher to have them watch my class. While supposedly given a 30 minute lunch break, after my students get through the lunch line I have about 20 minutes- to check my mailbox, answer parent emails/calls, make copies, etc…A planning period? Ha! We supposedly get one 4 days a week- however, one day a week we have a mandatory meeting, and the other three we have to be available for parent conferences.
A typically night I may have to call the Department of Family and Children Services on my own time, with my own phone. There is one phone in my school for all teachers to use, so therefore I have to use my personal cell phone to make parent phone calls.
I WISH I only worked 50 hours a week. Try more like 60 (even 70+ sometimes).
My state is implementing new teacher evaluations next year, and according to our administrators it is physically impossible to meet at the criterion set forth on rubrics. You must constantly decide what you’re not going to do (I’m extremely conscientious, but something has to give!). The way you’re set up for failure in education is absolutely insane. And through it all, we smile and sing songs (well at least in 1st grade).
While there are many underpaid professionals, who work extremely hard, our society has no clue what teachers endure. And the sad thing is, I love many aspects of my job. Obviously, I’m employed in a state where aren’t unions. I’m grateful that we do not have tenure, but honestly, it would be nice to have a little protection instead of being treated like cattle.
FYI, I’m in a “high-performing” Title 1 school. Our school has an amazing PTA and faculty. But something has got to change in our society. Let’s let teachers have the autonomy (with accountability) to teach.
” Bad teachers exist, but in a fairly structured compensation system, who would hire them? ”
Furthermore, some “bad” teachers USED to be “good” teachers, until they saw all the thanks it got them – none. I don’t expect my McDonald’s cashier to show the same level of courtesy as Chez Pierre’s maitre d’, and I don’t expect a public school teacher to show the same level of enthusiasm as a private school teacher. That some public school teachers DO muster up that enthusiasm amazes me.
If that’s $3 an hour to babysit a child, then for a class of, say, 25, a teacher should get $75 an hour.
Hey – thank your math teacher!
ummm… the article doesn’t say anything close to that. it says $3 an hour for the 6.5 hours they work. not $3 per child per hour.
Ummm…it actually does; read it again ($19,50 per student per day).
I believe good teachers should get good salaries, great teachers should get great salaries, mediocre teachers should get training, and bad teachers should get fired.
I know teachers need to be protected from crazy parents, but I do not believe in tenure because it’s impossible to get rid of bad tenured teachers, and there are so many great teachers out there who could use a good job!
I love the way people go on and on about tenure and bad teachers. The % of bad teachers to all teachers is very very very very low. In fact it is an insignificant number.
It has become a rightwing talking point akin to Reagans famous lie about welfare queens. No one ever found that welfare queen by the way.
So quit blaming teachers. First of all every reputable study says that socioeconomics are the biggest indicator of student success.
So people that means that parents and their incomes are the biggest factor in a childs success in school.
So by your logic we should lower/remove the property taxes on all homes costing less than 150,000 dollars as well as revoke all additional personal property taxes on individuals with gross incomes less than 50,000 dollars or those which by determination of their dependency status are legally in ‘poverty’; thereby, reducing tax receipts of the local jurisdictions and the allocation to education as property taxes are what largely fund a school’s budget.
Thus, the schools will be forced to, usually, take the wonderful action of reducing compensation to retirement plans, ‘let-go’ of teachers, forcing older teachers to ‘retire early’, and place a hiring freeze on further applicants…
Clearly this would place a substantial amount of money in the pockets of the socioeconomically inept in which case they will find themselves not so inept–if only they would save and not spend said money (let’s not consider boosting the economy here).
Evidently this should work since, as you mention, there is a inexorably low percentage of bad teachers to good teachers (really, I would like to know how you rate a bad teacher compared to a good teacher and then find the percentages on that aspect, but sure we will take your conjecture). Therefore, the good teachers should be able to take on a greater body of students, for example taking the teacher to student ratio from 1:30 to 1:60, or in large auditoriums from 1:120 or 1:240 for general classes–which sums up the large majority of elementary to secondary education.
Theoretically, if the the teachers are actually ‘good’ as you prescribe, and the lay-offs eliminate even a great preponderance of the mediocre teachers, then the students should still be in great shape. This reduces property taxes and increases the relative socioeconomic status of the students’ parents. Yup, should work, the only people disadvantaged in this situation are the teachers who are bad or mediocre–I guess this describes what happens in hyper-corporate competition. I say we implement it. After all, a students best teacher is him/herself and the book he or she is rarely ever expected, forced, or even asked to read–and they subsequently blame the teacher for not knowing the information on the test. Really, aren’t teachers just sometimes glorified supervises, test mediators, and living Google search engines?
I think Cyber-schooling has hit on this point, and if the research is true–we won’t need to implement the above offered plan. Cyber-schooling will eventually displace traditional education,and we won’t have to pay many people to teach thousands. All in time; all in time. Teaching, as a career, is one of the worst possible investments, pecuniarily speaking, for an education, for this very reason–just the facts, not an opinion.
Lol, you are hilarious! Your assumption is that everyone has the Internet, a computer and the motivation. Who monitors the students? Who marks? Who shows them where they went wrong and how to fix it? Who contacts the parents if their kid isn’t doing well? Online gym class? IBooks isn’t education, it’s information.
I strongly suspect that if teachers were paid what they’re worth, you’d find that mediocre teachers become fabulous teachers, and fabulous teachers become miracle workers. Bad teachers exist, but in a fairly structured compensation system, who would hire them? If you’re paying premium prices and not getting premium results, you tend to weed out the chaff… particularly when there would be dozens upon dozens of highly qualified, smart people lining up to get that prim-o salary & benefits package you’re offering. Heck, the main reason I didn’t become an English teacher is because it seemed like a thankless, underpaid career choice, but if someone were to offer me six figures, hell yeah, I’d go out and get an education degree in a heartbeat. As it is, I can make a lot more as a freelance editor, and that’s a sad, sad statement.
On the first of November, the Heritage Foundation released a study that seriously claims that public school teachers are grossly overpaid. You can find their report at http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2011/10/Assessing-the-Compensation-of-Public-School-Teachers
I wrote a refutation of their invalid assumptions and lies at
http://pedanticpoliticalponderings.blogspot.com/2011/11/repudiation-hertiage-foundation.html
While I wouldn’t turn down a quarter million a year, I doubt that is reasonable. It is really sad when some people think we are already getting the equivalent of that.
I read your “repudiation” and I must say, it’s well written (although mostly false)
why SHOULD the cost of education be considered when hiring someone? If I go to Harvard and you go to a State college…should I get more money for doing the SAME job because I paid more for my education? What about if I have a longer commute? Shouldn’t I be compensated for that? I have a 2 hour one way commute each day…should I have you pay for a portion of that? (after all, teachers are asking others to pay for THEIR choices)
You agree that private schools pay less than public schools…but you also fail to mention that private schools do a far better job than public schools, even accounting for the variance in student demographics.
The change from industry to teaching does NOT necessarily involve a “large investment” in coursework…it CAN…but it doesn’t always as you imply
You state that most teachers aren’t eligible for social security…which is true…but they also don’t have to pay INTO it…so why SHOULD they get it? They often have their entire TRS contribution paid by the district (i.e. taxpayers), so that’s an additional perk
Oh and lets not forget that they want to/had already reduced teachers salaries by $10,000 a year…..so 20%. If you want to see what the average is now then take $1.42 and multiply it by .80(80%).
you will get 1.136(so 1.13 to 1.14). I thank my teachers for doing what they could to teach me(I’m 22 now and yes my grammar is horrible). I am also a person with a learning disability and autism and even i know there is something wrong with this entire situation. I say we go back to what they were being paid and even INCREASE the salary, tax the millionaires at least 3%-4%(like its going to hurt them anyways), and evaluate the teachers a bit more and not let teachers become teachers by having a D average in their subject.
So…back to original wages and an increase and choose the teachers better. Also let the millionaires take the cut this time since they can afford it more easily. Some of you might judge the content by my problems, but i hope you can see past that. I only mentioned them because i know with teachers helping me want to learn more, and giving me the necessary mindset to do so that this was only accomplished because of it.
Kevin,
You do your past teachers proud! You are a credit to all the work, love & attention good teachers try to achieve… especially those that work with people who have learning difficulties.
I like your idea… Have the very wealthy (though they don’t admit being very wealthy) pay taxes to school districts in need. That would raise teacher’s salaries and probably school test scores since the teachers wouldn’t have to use outdated, outmoded materials & equipment.
Kindergarten teachers do a lot these days. Most are now full day, well where I live and it is no longer social time for kids. They learn so much in Kindergarten now and if they don’t, then they are already behind in their education. Children are getting pushed harder and harder now a days.
My grandson is in half day kindergarten… That’s because he reads at a fourth grade level. He needs to work on retention & comprehension. That will improve with time & good teachers.
I am fairly sure he will be in advanced classes if he isn’t too lazy to keep up.
If you want to be a teacher you are well aware of what the salary is. If it doesn’t meet your criteria choose another profession. There are plenty of teachers who are amazing at what they do and even more who are lousy. I have had more bad teachers in my lifetime than good. You know the kind, here is a worksheet, hand it in at the end of class… It happens too often and those teachers do not deserve higher salaries. I always hear how teachers are the ones who shape the lives of our children, really??? If that’s the case then they are responsible for the garbage that is our youth today. The real problem is with the system, identify those that are worthy of more money and pay them, find those who are not and cut them. that’s how it works in successful industries.
NS-You haven’t been in a school in a while. It is not at all as you describe. Teachers work very hard with a lot of students. The students are very troubled, and it’s not the teachers’ fault. The students have parents who are alcohol and drug addicted, mentally ill, or more. Parents work very hard themselves at poorly paid jobs and give most of their pay to day care to watch their children in the mornings and afternoons around school. They can’t pay the attention they would like to their children, and the children are suffering. Yet the teachers are able to help these children learn what they need to help our country get the workers it needs. Don’t blame our teachers, and we can’t blame the parents either. It’s not just the school systems that need to be changed-our society needs help.
AMEN!
Should education really be a business?
And what do you call private schools – charities ?
Whoa! When is the last time you spent the day in a classroom. First of all, I’ll agree not all teachers are great. However, do n’t you think raising their pay may increase the quality of teachers? I’m in it for my passions for children, and my family. It’s worth the financial sacrifice to have time off with my kids in the summer. During the school year, though, I spend an average of 9 hours a day at the school, and most often a day on the weekends. I’m lucky my kids see it as a treat to go play in my classroom while I work. Also, I have every ability level in my class from 1st to 5th grade. Hand out worksheets? Not me. I have kids on learning contracts, some compacting out of units for enrichment activities, and some receiving remedial services from other certified staff. Did I mention the plethora of behavior problems I deal with daily? An I’m not the minority. The teachers in my school are dedicated, hard-working individuals. We have recently experienced a turnover…many retirments within a short period of time. We have several first and second-year teachers. They can barely make ends meet. They rent apartments, drive older cars, and can barely get by. What is wrong with this picture?
I am not a teacher but I have great respect for what teachers put up with on a day to day basis. Beyond the kids that don’t try and the parents that blame the teachers for when their kids don’t try, there is the entire school system. Do you realize how hard it is for teachers to motivate student and reward high levels of performance/effort when there are policies in place designed to propel student forward that are not ready to move forwards? There are no such things as 0% any more in some school systems. The lowest grade a student can receive is 30% even if they did not do any work all semester. And with that undeserved 30% grade, they qualify for a “credit recovery” course that teaches them “time management” and organizational” skills. The public school boards are basically telling kids that, you don’t have to actually learn math… you can learn how to organize your binder and make a daily schedule instead. And all this translates into unprepared students heading off to college who don’t have career goals and are unmotivated because they have never had to rise to meet expectations before. Then you get employers wondering where all the good, educated workers are. Do you see the causal chain here people? Go back to the beginning and force kids to rise to some minor challenges of actually learning and reward the teachers that are struggling to make that possible and maybe then people could also stop complaining about the economy.
NS you say more lousy teachers than teachers who are amazing.NS that is a lie.
I challenge you to show any FACTS to back up that deluded assertion.
In fact there are very few “bad” teachers. It is just another right wing talking point to get the sheep all fired up.
And teachers are a very important step in our childrens growth. But socioeconomic factors are the biggest shaper of students.
Can you understand that?
Let’s not jump to calling an opinion a lie. I Happen to have the same opinion, even though I have friends who are teachers. Some of those friends are outstanding teachers. That being said, we moved to get our daughter out of a school where many more teachers than not were horrible. My daughter finished high school in a school where every teacher she came in contact with was not only exceptional, but had been teaching for many years. I wonder why they had not “burned out” as I have heard in the past. My youngest daughter attends the same school and the wonderful experience continues. We live in a community without a lot of money. We don’t have prep schools. We have a single campus for all of our grade levels. We also have parents who are interested in their children’s education and their development. Don’t think that teachers can do it alone. DON’T shrink from your own responsibility in the process. Most of all, DON’T allow bad teachers to short circuit the wondrous process by which our children grow into responsible, able, and productive members of society.
Today’s youth are not the way they are because of teachers, and if teachers are supposed to be raising children, society’s values are very warped. Children need parents to teach and model good manners and social responsibility before and during their school years. And, quite frankly, if you happened to have so many bad teachers, maybe it was you who needed to change your approach. Were you the kid who “Didn’t do anything and got blamed”, or got in trouble because the teacher wrote you up for your own actions? You are a perfect illustration of the real problem, which is an unwillingness to accept any responsibility and shift the blame to others. Any teachers, or anyone truly familiar with the reality of today’s education system know that there are very few bad teachers who can stay in the field – tenure or no tenure. A bad teacher is very easy to fire, and they usually are – probably the same percentage as people of any profession who are poor at doing their job.
My advice to you is to get in touch with reality and not just repeat rhetoric that you’ve heard regurgitated by other uninformed loudmouths.
“If you want to be a teacher you are well aware of what the salary is. If it doesn’t meet your criteria choose another profession.”
and
“I have had more bad teachers in my lifetime than good.”
I’m surprised you haven’t yet made the connection. I personally know people that would make exceptional teachers, but have decided to “choose another profession” because the 34k starting salary (in my district, you don’t hit 50k until 22 years of teaching) is not enough for them. If teachers’ salaries were higher, or even if teachers were actually appreciated in this country, you would find far more capable teachers than you do now.
Teachers can only do with what they are given! Parents need to step up and give a hoot about their children and their education. With more parental and community support, schools would greatly improve! If a child cannot behave and get good grades, there should be repercussions for the parents.
Then you go to a university (with a campus and library that teaches other subjects – you know business, engineering and medical degrees)and the powers that be give jobs in your area to coaches and others with limited experience. They can all go to ….
My mother was a teacher; this can be a brutal profession. They get shit from every angel. Kind of like Obama, they are damned if the do and damned if they don’t. Its truly a bureaucratic mess, where there should be support, there is none. Teachers can’t make a students learn with out support from parent. Parents are the most important educators, instilling values like self respect and respect of others. Don’t even get me started on the money. It was shit and is shit. Lesson plans, grading papers, report cards, extra curricular activities, PTA, meetings, disciplinary issues etc. all factoring in as additional hours to the average 8 hour day.
I almost implode when I heard some Fox News hate banter aimed at teachers. They may as well have been beating baby seals in my eyes the reckless pricks.
My mother retired early at 60 after being punched in the face by a student.
Wow…you people do realize this is an illustration to point out that we treat teachers and education at a lesser level than we might treat our babysitter.
And you teachers getting offended when someone might consider that a performance based system might be devised to provide “incentive” for a teacher to actually teach…please, be honest, many teachers are good at what they do…but others, many who have been around awhile, are tired and just picking up a paycheck. I am a teacher and know that you only get out of it what you put into it.
As a parent I am unhappy that my children’s teachers don’t send homework or just pass out worksheets all day rather than actually teach a subject…it happens more and more often lately.
Sure, there are socio-economic issues that effect the resources given to us, our kids. They are true hurdles but cannot be used as excuses. Keep pushing them…
Capitalism is not the issue.
Teachers are the foundation…they deserve to be paid…..
Here’s part of the problem with a performance based system–it’s contingent upon not only the standards of that system, but how your supervisors interpret those standards. As a first year teacher, I not only had to deal with the requirements of the credential, but evaluations from my principal and master teacher, as well as input from my co teachers. I asked all of them for help to meet the requirements, but I didn’t get much. As a result, I created three lesson plans to meet a state standard, and each time, my university supervisor told me I’d failed to do so.I would get suggestions from my principal, and when I followed them, I’d apparently still not have done them correctly. The second year, the same thing happened, except that I had a more supportive university supervisor–it was because of him that I finally got my preliminary credential. If a performance based standard had been in place, I would have been fired on the spot (as it was, I wasn’t asked back to either school at the end of the year).
I still see this type of “training” with other new teachers. That’s not fair, because nobody really knows what they’re getting into when they start their credential. They really, REALLY need support; if you really want good teachers, you have to help them get there. Veteran teachers need it too. I’m no longer surprised that so many of us leave the profession within 3-5 years.
In a capitalist society, an organization’s worth is based on it’s profit margin. Schools do not create a profit and so they are pretty low on the level of value.
Okay, so what about the professional sports and entertainment people – that’s where America seems to have placed its priorities – we don’t want to educate, we want to be entertained – can’t completely blame capitalism for that – we are just messed up in our cultural priorities. (imo) In literature, we are exactly at the point where the crisis occurs that overthrows everything – wonder how close literary fiction mirrors reality. You know, society is “so perfect” (at least for some) that the people become hedonistic, voyeuristic and only interested in playing (read entertainment), so then the “other” (monster of some sort) comes in to destroy it all so that it has to fight to survive – oh, wait a minute, that’s sort of happened.
Anyway, sorry to meander, just thinking that this might be a little bigger than a choice of commerce style…
in peace…
Gee, Blake, that’s a very interesting point you make. I guess we’re going to be shutting down firehouses and police stations, too, as they turn no profits. Then there’s the highway department. All they ever do is spend money plowing roads in the winter and then patching them in the summer – talk about a bad business model. And while we’re at it show me a level or branch of government that’s been pulling their weight, and then having the nerve to want to field armed forces and pay all of those unnecessary salaries.
Blake, I think I’ll like your society better, because we won’t have all of those silly rules, regulations, and people to enforce them. I’m sure businesses around the country will be far better off. Any chance we can round up the weak, old, infirm, and “imperfect” individuals and put them in camps surrounded by barbed wire? Oh, wait, how would we be able to charge them.
Hey, no offense, Blake. I’m guessing you would have been more careful about sounding silly if you had REALLY thought about your comment. Your high school English teacher was obviously not as persuasive as your Economics 101 teacher is.
In a capitalist society such as ours, organizations rely on people who can read and write, and add 2+2 at least, to create profits. Also, both parents must work for these organizations in order to survive, therefore they need to be able to spell their own name and do basic math; but since their own parents both had to work too, and so on and so forth, who was going to teach them these skills? Who is going to teach their kids these skills? Everybody knows what ends up happening to kids who skip/fail school. Can you imagine if everybody did? Without schools, the kids that didn’t end up dead from running around unsupervised would grow up to be useless adults, passed out drunk on their parents’ lawn when they’re 40 years old, and there wouldn’t be very much profit margin to be found anywhere. I think our capitalist, profiteering society owes everything it has to the school system.
P.S. Without my many, many teachers who’ve taught me how to write, and how to act civilized, I wouldn’t be able to write an intelligent response to your dumbass comment, and refrain from using insulting language to get my point across.
About seven years ago I paid $5.00/hour for child care at a daycare center, if it was a private daycare it was $7.00/hour, and for a babysitter who came to your house (usually a teenager if you went out in the evenings) it was $8-$9 an hour. My mother is a retired teacher. She and another teacher kept track of their total hours one year and when they divided it out, they made a lot less than minimum wage.
At least someone should correct the basic math in the story. I support teachers and their salaries, but articles that are not even mathematically correct, defeat the purpose.
You do realize this is satire, correct? In case you aren’t aware, this is satire to show that teachers are incredibly underpaid.
Uh…I’m a mathematics teacher, and the “arithmetic” is correct. $3/hr x 6.5 hrs/day x 30 students/teacher x 180 days is $105300. It’s a simple calculation. Not sure what you mean by “basic math,” unless you want correct units, in which case it would be 105300 Student Dollars/Teacher.
Excellent – from another former math teacher :-)
I’m sorry but I believe that some teachers make too much money. I know someone who makes almost $100,000-teaching kindergarten. I’m not saying some people don’t deserve it-I’m sure a lot do, but not at that age level. Maybe if this person was teaching kids with mental/behavioral problems, that would be different. On the other hand, some teachers don’t get paid nearly as much.
I won’t believe that number without a W-2.
Why don’t you two get off your lazy arses and look the information up for yourselves? http://www.worldsalaries.org/teacher.shtml
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary
http://www.educationworld.net/salaries_us.html.
There…did it for you. That’s what teachers make in your country. Just because you ‘don’t believe’ a fact or know someone who is an exception doesn’t make the fact untrue.
I just looked at those figures. What they show is that teachers DON’T make $100K. So Serena is WRONG. I too would LOVE to see that W-2 if that person made $100K because all the info on those links shows on avg around $50K.
You DO realize that in order for the AVERAGE salary to be around $50K, that means there are some who make significantly more than that, right? Or have you forgotten how the law of averages works?
Teachers in MY rural area do NOT even make $30,000 a year, let alone $50,000. Those making $50,000 or more must be those who live in high expense areas, so have to get paid more to live. Don’t take facts out of context and try to say it’s for everyone. Teachers in LA or NY or Miami will of course make more than someone in a small town of 5,000 pop.
Are you being idiotic enough to assume that some teachers are actually being paid ZERO dollars? Because how else are you fitting in a $100,000 salary into your head?
OK, Dawn, just some help with the “basic” math. If you’re saying that with the “average” salary being $50K, which would allow for the $100K salary, keep going with that thought and you will be OK with some having to make $0K, right?
Is there a comparison of average teacher salaries compared to other professions that require (at least) six years of college, a Master’s degree, and being licensed by their state? Hmmmm…I guess that includes lawyers, accountants, psychologists, to name a few. Think there would be a difference?
Nobody enters the teaching profession to get wealthy. With the same amount of education they could enter much higher paying careers, and those for whom money is the only motivation do just that. It’s terribly sad that so many people are complacent in the misconception that teaching is some easy career that pays money hand over fist to anyone who wants to come in a few hours a day for a few days a year. Give it a try sometime and you’ll understand why everybody isn’t doing it.
No, not usually, Dawn. It’s not like salaries range from 0k-100k, and therefore the avg is going to be 50k. It’s more like salaries range from 35k-65k (In my district the highest amount paid is 61k, and that’s after 34 years of teaching).
When someone provides a claim, it’s not up to the person hearing it to look for the data, it’s up to the claim maker to provide it.
“I have blue apples!”
“Prove it!”
“Quit being lazy and look it up, just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it untrue!”
You’re trying to convince me of something, and are expecting me to convince myself of it, it doesn’t work that way.
Unfortunately I can’t provide one (she is my brother’s GF and is in a different state but I did see how much she made when I lived there). She has been in the system for 20 years and that’s what she makes. Makes me sick, especially when a teacher in my current state makes $17000 per year teaching high school. I’m sorry I can’t convince you otherwise, but look up PA and see if they say different.
That’s what teachers in MY area make a year, PLUS they pay for supplies for their students because they don’t get enough supplies provided for them.
How in the world did you “see” how much she made? Were you snooping? What are we supposed to look up in PA?
I’m sorry Serena, but now I also don’t believe your $17k claim.
http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state
first of all, as a teacher, our district caps out just below $75,000. and, to get that, you need two masters degrees and be employed by the district your entire career. second, as a teacher, i can tell you that the kindergarten teachers deserve the HIGHEST pay. i work with all grade leves and kindergarten is definitley the most challenging.
I think you’re the shining example of a low-knowledge voter, or someone who doesn’t know a lot about issues but feels like their opinion is certainly worthy of being heard as fact. I don’t mean to be insulting but it’s certainly true.
Just because you know ONE or two people who displease you on a certain subject that doesn’t mean that millions of other teachers should suffer because of it. You don’t even go on to refute the initial information in this piece that says the AVERAGE is $50K. I know that you feel you’re entitled to your opinion but you don’t just get to throw it out there without giving some sort of evidence or persuasion about why you think a teacher shouldn’t make $100K. I think that’s very irresponsible.
Don’t ever through that low-knowledge voter bullshit at me again. I am telling you what I know to be fact; whether you believe it or not is up to you. I know what I know.
I did not say that teachers need to suffer. I’m saying $100,000 is too much for what she teaches. Yes, that is my opinion (based on fact). She may be the only one in that district; I don’t know. There are plenty of teachers that make way too little and they deserve more. If you read my post instead of skimming through it, you would know you why I don’t believe she deserves that much. So get your Republican head out of your ass and read what people write instead of attacking for no reason.
That would be “throw” not “through”. Your language arts teachers must have been over paid!
I’m sorry, but I believe that some doctors make too much money. What’s that though? They help people? Oh, got it, so it’s ok to pay them the big bucks because they help people. Good thing those doctors were born with all of the informa… wait, what? You mean to tell me that a TEACHER taught them how to save lives?
It always kills me when people attack the teaching profession.
I’m not attacking the profession-I’m just saying that she makes too much. Trust me on this one. It’s not like she does ANYTHING extra with the kids, either. She goes home and lays in bed for the rest of the night. No extra work-NOTHING. As soon as she’s allowed out, she goes home, lays in bed, and talks on the phone all night.
A lot of teachers are underpaid, some are overpaid. I’m sorry-$100,000 is too much for someone (who can’t even be bothered to put her classroom the way she wants it because she’s too effing lazy). Give it to someone who teaches at-risk kids or something.
How the hell am I suppose to give evidence? I’m not going to her house to steal her paystubs!! And, as much as I hate her, I am not going to post her info.
Sorry if you people don’t believe me (maybe get your heads out of your asses and look things up-I applaud the people who do although you have to realize that average doesn’t mean people don’t make more or less). It’s the same with polling. 10 people said they hate something so let’s say the majority of Americans diasagree/agree with something.
Holy crap, how do you know all this? Do you follow her around EACH AND EVERY DAY? Do you meticulously document each minute she is working versus not working? Are you there with her at home when she stumbles across an interesting activity online and decides to incorporate it into her her classroom?
If not, you need to STFU. If so, you need to get a life.
Looks like someone heard that a kindergarten teacher asked the children to move their chairs into a circle for an activity and then move them back to the desks for more structured learning. What a horrible lazy person. How dare she teach children to follow instructions in a classroom environment? Or to clean up after themselves? Slash her pay immediately.
Given the highest average salary by state is in California, which is around $55000/year, I’d say your claim is at best, suspect.
Please let me know where they are working because I would love to apply!!!! I have been teaching Kinder and 1st grade for almost 11 years and gross $38,000/year. After deductions and insurance I bring home approximately $25,500/year. So something is obviously WRONG!
Serena forgot to mention that her nemesis busted her hump for years and started a business and through dedicated work now owns a profitable private kindergarden from which she pays herself a salary.
I am a teacher and I am all for the judging of teachers based on the student test results. I would expect, however, to only have students who come from a family that values education, are able to focus, have a desire to learn, have no difficulties at home such as divorce, homelessness, abuse, etc., are healthy enough to attend shool almost every day it is open, have the talent of taking standardized tests well, and are more focused on their education than socializing with their peers.
Are you being serious, or facetious?
@Lisa: I am a teacher too! Very well said! Yes Matthew she was being facetious b/c the system puts to much emphasize on testing. Principals overload some teachers with students who have academic and behavior problems b/c they need to keep their school scores up. Lisa is nostalgic for the past (when teachers had equally balanced classes of students’ abilities and backgrounds) so she is looking through rose-colored glasses with this statement. Very good Lisa! Have a great new school year!
I meant to say, “too” much emphasize on testing.” ;-)
Perhaps you really meant to say, “too much emphasis on testing.”
Tests are the only thing that should matter. If you cant remember the information you should have learned you deserve poor grades. Grades should be about 75% Test scores, 20% Quizes, and and 5% in class work/participation.
That’s stupid. Tests don’t determine aptitude or retention, especially since most people just cram before a test then forget what they learned.
Teaching to the test just creates a generation of followers. Teaching using reading, writing skills, cognative and independent thought is what creates a generation of innovators.
Where in your bogus assessment do you allow for essays to evaluate writing skills or critical thinking applications? Every subject except math (and even that can be argued) needs some critical thinking essay writing to determine true retention. Without it, we are setting up students to fail when they reach college.
Until now I never noticed the SERIOUS flaw in Tayloy’s comment.
“75% Test scores, 20% Quizes, and and 5% in class work/participation.”
I should never have felt compelled to argue with someone who listed “test scores” and “quizes” (sic) as 2 separate things.
So, you’d want to be judged on the basis of 3 test results? Sounds kinda risky to me! If just ONE of those 3 is mad at you, look out!
BTW, anyone have the name & number of that teacher in the photo? Rawr! Hot for teacher!
http://www.shoutgoldenshouts.com/2011/02/are-you-sick-of-highly-paid-teachers.html
We’re all forgetting the REAL problem bankrupting America… Tax breaks for millionaires and corporations. Teachers’ salaries are just not it. Bt that is exactly what the powerful elite want you to fight over because it distratcs from the real underlying problem. If anything they are underpaid for probably the most important job in ensuring a bright and successful future for our children. Unfortunately our society has promoted a sense of longevity over productivity, which seems to be an ongoing theme in union jobs, so our children, coupled with a major lack of funding and support from conservative “think tanks”, a drop in the standard of education, and a major rise in ADHD and other distractions, have literally submerged America’s future generations into what is ranked as 37th in education,,, we used to be #1!!! YouTube thiis video: RSA Animate – Changing Education Paradigmsa for a nice perspective on how our society has formed our young into drones, rather than bright individuals. Wonderful 11 minute video. Seriously blew my mind.
Guest writer? This guest writer didn’t write this article. It has been floating around the Internet for many years. Please give credit where it’s due or acknowledge the source.
i’m stupid and didn’t see the byline. My apologies Mods
Teachers make all other occupations possible.
Yep!
Okay, so how many people on welfare have fancy spinning wheels on their cars?
What does that have to do with ANYTHING? I really don’t get your point.
I think someone is touching themselves too much !
This comment was made in response to a past post…Not the article
Republican Math is a bit fuzzy, isn’t it?
My parents were teachers but they taught students who were properly parented. Today, they would have better things to do than teach the neglected, ADHD, oversexed, undercurious barbarians that fill our schools!
Rather than cut the teacher’s pay, I, as a taxpayer am sick of paying for parents who aren’t doing the job. It is time to end tax deductions for being a parent as well as the home mortgage tax deduction.
Can you recalculate that using current daycare prices? =)
Teachers aren’t upholding the needed standards of educating our children so let’s reduce their pay to get more qualified people to fill those positions.
to SB, I would like to know what you do for a living and invite you to spend one week as a teacher in a Middle School in NYC.
SB – I SERIOUSLY hope you’re joking….
howabout you help the teacher by parenting properly. i know there is no real user guide to children, you have to make it up as you go along.
my mom had a real nice saying when dealing with my paternal grandparents when my father did something silly or stupid,” hey you raised him, I just married him” lets see how it works here: “hey your raising him(or her) I just teach them”
Durr – this article is saying if they were paid daycare prices, they’d be paid MORE than they are now.
You obviously should have paid more attention in school.
Relax, everybody. We can all appreciate sarcasm, right? Because this article is PRO teachers. You did all get that, right? Judging from these posts, some of you didn’t.
I think some of these people are actually attacking teachers, saying they do LESS than babysitters.
i love this article i find its sarcasim awesome! of course teachers do much more than babysit they educate our children and if they can make 105,000 a year baby sitting kids for 3 bucks and hour wouldnt you say they are under paid? I would! i understand yea some teachers are not the best at all even when you get to the university level. But maybe just maybe if we paid the teachers that are deserving than we would have better teachers, my logic maybe flawed but if your not getting recognition for what you do its hard to be motivated even for the ones that love it. It takes a wonderful driven person to only get recognition from kids. Most need it from their superiors as well. Going through school in Arizona one of the countries worst ranked school systems I saw this yearly; another teacher deserving of a great salary leaves because he cant support his family or was laid off because he/she hadn’t been there long enough and the crazy old bat who had lost her touch got to stay. Is everything in this post totally correct no of course not but our education system is flawed and needs help!
The only problem I see with this math is that $3.00/hour per child was the sleeping baby-sitting rate 10 years ago (you’d already gotten them to bed & asleep before the sitter arrived) and closer to $5+/hr/child if they were expected to pop in a movie, maybe feed them a snack and put them in bed! Assuming no increase in baby-sitting rates over a period of 10 years (well, minimum wage hasn’t increased much either), since the children teachers ‘babysit’ are awake at arrival, the original calculation should have been: 5(dollars)x6.5(hours)x30(children)x180(days)=$175,500 Assuming no increase in qualifications for baby-sitters either, this would be the annual rate paid to a 15-yr-old who sneaks her boyfriend into class and makes-out on the couch while the kids watch from the hallway…welcome to Sex-Ed Class, kiddos!!
That’s about the salary of a rank-and-file member of Congress. I think they should swap salaries with teachers, given that Congresscritters do less than a babysitter.
It’s articles like this that really frustrate the actual debate by using a false sense of logic to rationalize and try to convince people that, apparently, are easily persuaded. Teachers do not perform daycare. That is not their job. They are (supposed to be) educated, trained professionals. They are licensed, and it is their job to teach – not daycare. That said, teachers should do their jobs. There are many other, more challenging careers that pay no where near the $50,000 per year average, so perhaps a little less complaining and sardonic comments, disguised as logic, would be appropriate. But I digress.
Are teachers over/under paid? Some, I’m sure, are under paid. I’ll accept that. I’ve worked in the public school setting as a professional, and some teachers surely don’t get paid enough to do their jobs. However, there are two sides to every coin. There are many teachers that get paid well over the average while at the same time producing very poor results. Further more, once a teacher is tenured, it doesn’t matter how well they teach, graduation rates, performance or success. Personally observed as well as nationally documented, it is clear that results have very little to do with payment. If that were applied to other work areas, then it would matter little how long an individual had been in the field. If the results are not there, then the teacher shouldn’t be.
I believe you may be a bit confused about “tenure” at the public K-12 level. It may vary from state to state but where I work (WA) there is no such thing as tenure. We are evaluated each year and receive disciplinary steps if our performance is unsatisfactory. This is true regardless of how long a teacher has been working. Maybe it’s different where you are?
Further, just because you have worked in a school “as a professional” I doubt you fully understand the nature of what a teacher does… or are you a trained teacher? Yes, there may be teachers who do the minimal work but I doubt you are qualified to make that assessment.
Finally, if you support performance based pay I gather that you must also support more school funding to establish a solid level of equity in schools. Let me explain what I mean: I work in a low socio-economic school. We receive minimal funding, I have NO class sets of books, I have to pay for and create my own curriculum because the district cannot afford to provide it for me. Please understand- that means I go out on my own to research, locate, acquire, copy, and prepare the materials I teach. You want to pay me based on performance. Well, factor in that I also spend hundreds of dollars every year (only a fraction of which can be written off) on pencils and notebooks so that my students have basic materials to try and learn. Do they care about learning? Tragically, not as much as they should but that is partially because of the vast under funding. Now, contrast that with the school where my wife works. They receive the same low funding but they also receive over 100K each year from PTA fundraisers because she is in a very wealthy area. They have new computers, brand new sets of books, tutors, field trips to provide real world learning opportunities, and the kids value learning because their parents model its value. Her kids’ test scores CRUSH those of my students. However, I work harder to help the kids achieve what growth they have.
How do you resolve that and what is your method for equitable pay based on performance outcomes?
… And I believe you’re a bit jealous. $50K isn’t peanuts, but it isn’t fillet minion either. Especially for, as you say, “They are (supposed to be) educated”, individuals who invested time and money in said education.
As for your perspective; “I’ve worked in the public school setting as a professional” and “There are many other, more challenging careers that pay no where near the $50,000 per year average”. These statements speak volumes. What kind of “professional” are you? Working as cafeteria or janitorial help, both more physically challenging but less mentally challenging “professions”, do pay less but could not really be considered professional by most standards. And should rightly, by your implied logic applied back to you, be paid less. If you were truly an education professional you would have stated your credentials, instead you chose to obfuscate. Your words would have had more weight had you posted simply as Nate K Public.
Get a grip, yes the post is a bit tongue in cheek, but it points out that which is obvious to those paying attention, the average teacher is a heck of a bargain.
“I’ve worked in the public school setting as a professional”.
Janitor.
Asa casual observer from Britain I have to say this is a deplorable article. It seems to me that on both sides of the Atlantic the right wing in both nations have targeted people who give service. Well as an ex teacher myself, come and try it you think it’s just babysitting.
Pathetic capitalists
I agree. Teachers should be paid the current rate for babysitting per child. On the other hand, politicians should ONLY be paid if they actually get their work done. They only have a few things they are supposed to do. One of them is to pass a budget and all appropriations bills by September 30 of every year so that the new fiscal year can start on October 1 with a new budget. I would not pay them ANYTHING, to include any office staff payments, health benefits, pension payments until they got it done. If the new fiscal year had to start with a continuing resolution, then ALL monies that would have been paid to them or their staffs would be forfeited to the Social Security system. They would NOT be eligible for and pension benefits for that entire term. That would be the entire 2 years for members of the House and the entire 6 years for a Senator. Even 1 year missing the deadline would invalidate any payments made and if they received anything of benefit, it would have to be forfeited to the Government.
Here, Here! Absolutely agree! Senate and Reps should not get paid if they also not in “session”. Should be paid “unemployment” at the current rate, and no benefits..kinda like construction workers when they are not working!
Here! Here! I’ll vote for that one! Legislators are part-time workers that deserve part-time wages & benefits (?).
The link below may provide you with the original author for this post.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=184550814914508&id=121949394485040
I am not the author of that version, but my version was originally given as a speech at a Dearborn Federation of Teachers rally in Dearborn, MI. My written version is on my Facebook page “Just A Mom”, where it has been posted as a note.
Yea right, cause all they do is babysit! (Sarcasm to follow…) Cause we surely don’t want no educated work force! ‘Cause they would KNOW things!
Yea, cause that’s ALL they do is babysit..???? (Sarcasm to follow..) Cause we surely don’t want a educated workforce! They would KNOW things!!!!!!
on closer inspection, this version differs from his original post, but the idea is the same…
I know who wrote this! It was Josh Moss of Wisconsin – it was originally posted as a facebook note in April. I think he’s the original author.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001875024837